Most new podcasters haven't even uploaded their first episode before they start daydreaming about how to sell ads. I was definitely eager to monetize early on, though I firmly believe content should come first. As I very eloquently told my podcasting students last year, "It's hard to monetize a turd." That being said, wanting to gain sponsorships is a totally valid AND attainable goal.
So for today's interview, I want to introduce you to Cameron Poter. Cam was such a masterful ad salesman that he founded his own network! Now, in addition to hosting the HILARIOUS Sex Talk With My Mom (yes, he co-hosts with his mom, it's the best!), he's also the fearless leader of Pleasure Podcasts, which is the sex-positive collective we're so grateful to call home for Private Parts Unknown. Alright, Besties, let the monetization begin!
Cam, your story is so inspirational, especially for indie creators, so give readers the CliffsNotes. How did you go from using your mom’s sex life as fodder for standup comedy to co-hosting a successful podcast, and then running a successful podcast network? (In 90 seconds or less, lol.)
CP: It all started back on a blustery Chicago day in March of 1989. My mother gave birth to me, a gorgeous 8-pound lump with abnormally large eyes… You can pretty much fill in the gaps from there, right?
Yeah, I think we’re done here…
Okay, so here’s what happened. My dad died suddenly when I was 17, which led my mom to start dating again. She eventually created a YouTube channel all about dating and sex the second time around. Her interviews with porn stars about their tips on oral sex caught me off guard. I soon realized that having a sex-enthusiastic mother could be a goldmine for my standup comedy act. Eventually, we decided to collaborate on a podcast called “Sex Talk With My Mom.” We launched the podcast in 2015, and we invited a bunch of sexpert podcasters onto the show to share their wisdom with our audience. These podcasters were all aiming to build a sex-positive community of listeners and brand partners, so I encouraged everyone to come together under one umbrella called Pleasure Podcasts. The company launched in 2018, and the past four years have felt much like giving birth to a glorious 8-pound lump.
We’re going to get into more detailed stuff about ad sales, but high level first. You’ve done such a great job bootstrapping and networking as both a podcaster and podcast entrepreneur. Clearly, you have some sort of secret sauce, but I’m curious if there are any lessons or themes you’ve learned along the way?
CP: Thank you, Courtney! 1) Don’t be stingy! Especially in the beginning, lower your prices and give extra value to your brand partners. Once you have proven that your ads work and you’re a competent human, you’ll have the potential to build long-standing relationships that will pay off significantly more than in the short run. It’s all about getting your foot in the door and overdelivering. 2) Running a network is a balancing act of serving podcasters, listeners, and advertisers. The three parties can sometimes have interests that are at odds with each other. You need to take care of all three entities to have a successful network.
From Day 1, folks are always dying to know how to monetize their podcast. So real talk, what numbers do you need to sell ads? What (if any) monetization options are available to smaller or brand new, unproven shows? Please give it to the little guys straight.
CP: Honestly, it depends on the show’s topic and the targetability and loyalty of its audience. Let’s take two shows with 1,000 listeners. If the podcast is about horseback riding, they will have a much easier time selling ads than a more general comedy podcast about pop culture. E.g., the horse pod can partner with specialized companies like saddle manufacturers. In general, I’ve found that more niche shows can start selling ads earlier. A very rough estimate for when a podcaster can start selling ads is ~1,000 downloads per episode after 30 days from publishing. Another option for smaller shows is to sell branded episodes where the host interviews a representative from the company. These longer promotions offer more exposure than a 60-second mid-roll, so companies might be willing to shell out for them even if the show’s audience is on the smaller side.
Why did you decide to start Pleasure Podcasts, and what’s the power of a collective when it comes to ad sales? Any advice for a podcaster interested in forming their own collective?
CP: I started it because I saw a hole in the market and my bank account, as well as a deep need in our culture for content that more openly and thoughtfully discusses sex! When it comes to ad sales, a collective can develop an advantage over individual shows by combining downloads and creating a one-stop shop for brand partners. If a podcaster wants to create their own collective, I’d recommend they: 1) Go niche! Choose a very small slice of podcasters and advertisers to serve so that you develop a unique advantage in the marketplace, 2) Research your competition ahead of time, 3) Create your own podcast first so that you know how to serve other podcasters, and 4) Prepare to grind it out for a few years before it feels like a real thing.
How can indie podcasters find brands to work with? Are any podcast ad marketplaces beneficial for small and mighty podcasts with highly engaged audiences?
CP: Sure! I know that companies like Spreaker have really helped my podcasting friends sell programmatic ads on their shows. By “Programmatic ads,” I am referring to those ads that you hear for major companies like McDonald’s that are not host-read. They’re automatically inserted into the podcast and then stripped away, so it requires very little work on the podcaster’s end. Even though they don’t pay as much as host-read and -endorsed ad spots, this technology can help podcasters earn cash even if they can’t sell their own ad spots directly to a brand partner.
Do you have any tips on writing a great pitch email — especially for a cold pitch? Do's and don'ts?
CP:
Do’s:
Research the company ahead of time and share how your network is uniquely positioned to spread the word about their brand in a sentence or two.
Make sure not to be braggadocious, but let the recipient know you're legit. You can include details about your downloads, the publications that have featured you in Best Of lists, and other advertisers with whom you've successfully partnered.
Don’ts:
Misspell the recipient’s or company’s name.
Write a novel. A paragraph can be enough for the initial email. Marketing directors are BUSY and have limited time to read letters from strangers.
How do you approach the concept of pricing or CPMs when you’re selling ads for small to medium but highly specific niche audiences?
CP: People say that the industry average for CPMs is $25 for a mid-roll. That said, if your audience is perfectly aligned with a brand, your advertisements are more valuable! Test 3-4 episodes at a more typical industry CPM, and then increase your rates once your ads have proven effective for the client. It can be wise to let the brand partner know in advance of the test run that you are offering a discounted rate for the test campaign and that you'd like to keep open the possibility of increasing your CPMs when it comes time to discuss renewals.
What are the recent trends you’ve noticed in podcasting and ad sales, for better or worse?
CP: People are preparing for the eventual industry migration to dynamically inserted ads once that technology becomes more affordable to smaller podcasters. Rather than offering embedded ad spots that are permanently baked into their content, networks are selling ad spots that are dynamically inserted or "Embedded (90 Days)." In other words, an ad will stay live in an episode for 90 days and can only be stripped from the episode if it has reached its guaranteed number of downloads.
Anything else you’d like to add?
CP: If this conversation has excited you, you wonderful reader, and you’d like to work in ad sales, then please consider applying for our open position of Ad Sales Associate! Please get in touch at admin@pleasurepodcasts.com.
Hell yeah — get it, Besties. And thank you so much, Cam!
Interested in working in ad sales? Shoot Cameron an email at admin@pleasurepodcasts.com to learn more about their open ad sales associate position!
➡️ Follow Cameron Poter on TikTok and Instagram @SingleCamComedy, and his podcast @SexTalkWithMyMom.
Podfather Jad Abumrad is hanging up his headphones for Radiolab - If you’re on Podcast Twitter, you’ve probably already heard the news. Radiolab host Jad Abumrad is stepping aside from the influential show he helped found after 20 years (!!!). Jad, thank you for the inspiration you’ve given to a generation of podcasters. We’re forever indebted to you. (I teared up while writing this.)
Pod People is launching Pod Pipeline - Part production company and part talent agency, Pod People is a special amalgam in the industry. Their new venture, Pod Pipeline, will source original podcast ideas from indie creators, which will be sent to producers, buyers, and distributors monthly. (Disclosure: I've worked for Pod People on a couple of shows and had a great experience.)
Senior Producer, The Takeaway (full-time) at New York Public Radio | Remote + New York, NY
Audio Engineer (freelance) at Co:Collective | New York, NY + Remote
Producer II, Throughline (full-time) at NPR | Washington, DC
Associate Producer, Talk (full-time) at Kast Media | Remote
REVEAL: AFTER AYOTZINAPA - It’s been a super busy week of primarily working on my own projects, but I managed to get in another Twitter-recommended podcast. I have loads of respect for the types of stories they tell on Reveal, but the After Ayotzinapa series is especially compelling. I remember snippets of this event as a news story seven years ago, so it’s very interesting to revisit it with more (heartbreaking) context.
We can all learn from our mistakes. Comedian Howie Mandel discusses being okay with failure, saying "yes" instead of "no," and his book, Here's the Deal.
Last week, we dropped a bonus episode on the feed. Host Mesh Lakhani interviewed the Weatherman on why energy prices are going up, what's going on with Kazakhstan, and how that has affected the price of uranium, which has everyone worried.
And this week, Mesh Lakhani broke down Microsoft's recent purchase of Activision Blizzard and why it positions them perfectly for the metaverse.
This week’s Play It Forward comes from Toby Ude-Akpeh. She recommends:
She loves this pod because it “gives unbiased reviews of African music.”
And give Toby’s podcast a listen, as well. She suggests starting with:
This is a favorite “because it was the episode that I was most vulnerable in.”
She also has a newsletter, so check that out, as well. Thanks so much for writing in, Toby!
➡️ Here’s the link to submit for future editions.
So… ROLL CALL! 🗣
Where are you on your ad sales journey? If you've been able to monetize, what's your #1 tip for success?
Follow me @courtneykocak on Twitter and Instagram. For more, check out my website courtneykocak.com.