Making your podcast stand out 🤗
Jeremy Enns on differentiation and positioning
Oversaturation in any industry happens, and these days in podcasting, we see similar show formats pop up all the time. In this landscape, being different isn’t bad; it’s your superpower. Which begs the question: How do you make your podcast so irresistibly unique that it stands out to listeners?
In my quest to make 2022 the year of the indie podcaster for me and my besties (that’s you!), I asked podcasting entrepreneur, Counterweight Creative CEO, and all-around pod master Jeremy Enns for insight into how he helps creatives make their podcasts distinctive and extraordinary. ⬇️
First, can you explain what you mean by differentiation and positioning and why spending some time noodling on this can help move the needle?
JE: So differentiation is exactly what it sounds like: Creating a show that’s obviously different from what’s already available. It’s a simple concept to grasp, really, but the difficulty comes in executing it.
That said, if you’re looking to grow a podcast today, a clear differentiation strategy is pretty much a must-have. Humans are terrible at comparing between more than two or three similar offerings. As a result, when presented with multiple similar offerings, we often make our selection based not on which offering is the best but on which one catches our eye.
This means that our best hope of growing our audiences is not to make a better show than all the similar shows out there but to create a show that is obviously different from all the shows already out there.
Positioning, then, is one of many tools that we as creators, businesses, and brands can use to achieve differentiation.
At its core, positioning is about clarifying where your show stands in relation to other similar shows in your niche or industry based on one or two sets of opposing variables that your listeners care about.
By charting the existing shows in your niche — for example, the top 10 shows in the News & Politics category on Apple Podcasts — you’ll often find clusters of similarly-positioned shows. You’ll also likely find gaps where the competition is low or non-existent. These gaps often represent interesting opportunities to create a show unlike anything else that currently exists, and in doing so, cut through the noise.
It’s important to keep in mind that positioning is about intentionally turning some people off in favor of becoming the obvious, one-and-only choice for others. Whatever you do, don't try to appeal to everyone because you can't and you won't.
In my opinion, when used effectively, positioning is the biggest advantage we as small, scrappy underdog creators have at our disposal to clearly stand out in a noisy world full of bigger, better-financed shows than ours.
Let’s start with differentiating yourself from the beginning. If you were launching a new show in the new year, how would you approach analyzing what’s out there, what’s missing, your intended audience, and your strengths as you develop your show concept?
JE: As it turns out, I actually am thinking about starting a show next year, so this is perfect. The first step is to ask two questions:
Who’s it for?
What’s it for?
In my case, this TBD show will be for indie creators with the goal of helping them build sustainable careers around meaningful creative work. With that in mind, I'd start by researching shows that already address creators and the creator economy. Being a systems nerd, I'd create a database to track my research, but you could also do it on good old-fashioned pen and paper.
For each show, I’d note down a series of observations, including:
Show length, release frequency, show format (interview, solo, narrative, roundtable, etc.), specific problem show seeks to solve, what makes it interesting? what makes it boring? (or perhaps what makes it uninteresting to me specifically), the subset of the creator niche it addresses, tone/vibe, etc.
With this information in hand, I’d reflect on some of the following questions:
Where are there clusters of similar shows?
Where are there gaps in the distribution of shows? Why might that be?
What feels cliched or trite?
What are the unanswered questions I have even after listening to a broad cross-section of these shows?
What’s everyone missing here?
What do I personally want more of?
What’s the journey these listeners are on? Where do they get stuck? Why do they get stuck there?
What frustrates me about the current state of the industry or niche? Do others share my frustration?
This research might seem like a lot of work, and it can be. But in my mind, it’s better to do this work upfront than produce a show for a year (or three) that never gains traction because you didn’t take the time to create a differentiated offering from the start, which is exactly what happens to the vast majority of podcasters who hit a plateau they can’t get past.
The other thing that I can't move on without saying is that creating a unique and successful show has to start with a topic, or better yet, a question that you are absolutely obsessed with and fascinated by as the host. With that in mind, I'd spend a good deal of time journaling, writing, and reflecting on my own fascinations and curiosities within the creator space.
Everyone’s familiar — perhaps too familiar — with the standard show concept trope of “I’m going to interview experts in a field.’ How can podcasters get away from that, especially as it pertains to format, without being too gimmicky?
JE: You're totally right. The expert interview format seems to be the default option in many niches. And there are a lot of great benefits to producing an interview show.
But there’s a danger of simply creating a new version of a show that already exists a dozen times over. How many online marketing shows are there that all share the same format, interview the same types of guests (maybe even the same guests) and address the same audience? Certainly dozens, if not hundreds.
The problem is that these shows are commodities. Why would anyone choose a new expert interview-style show over an incumbent that’s been around for years, has a recognizable host, access to top-tier guests, and a mountain of social proof?
Positioning can work wonders here in some cases, but it works even better if there’s a clear and compelling show concept that frames your interviews.
The problem with most expert interview shows is twofold:
They often feel like a collection of disparate episodes without a clear through-line tying them together.
The interviews themselves lack a clear focus that hooks listeners, guides the episodes, and ties them into the broader show.
The answer to both problems is to narrow your focus down and find a central hub around which all your episodes and interviews can revolve. Ideally, the concept can be summed up into a single sentence compelling enough to hook your ideal listeners without them ever listening to a second of audio.
How important is continually revisiting differentiation and positioning as your podcast evolves, and how do you personally approach that?
JE: It is absolutely essential. No industry, niche, or medium is static. Everything's constantly evolving and shifting around us, which means we as creators need to be intentional about how we change with it.
When it comes to differentiation and positioning, one of the side effects of doing it well is that people will copy you if it works. How many Joe Rogan or Tim Ferriss copycat shows are there, for example?
Positioning, in particular, requires constant attention. Part of this is because good positioning is often about pushing to the edge of one variable or another. Once you find an advantage that works, however, sooner or later, someone else is going to come along and push even further past you.
One example I've been watching recently is in the electric car market. For a while, the market was dominated by low-priced, accessible hybrids like the Toyota Prius and the Chevy Bolt. Then Tesla came along with fully electric vehicles that pushed the limits on performance and luxury, positioning themselves not as a company for the average consumer but the elite.
Over the years, however, they've adjusted their positioning and product offerings to appeal to the average consumer. Meanwhile, Lucid Motors has come along and outflanked Tesla, positioning itself as an even more-luxurious electric car company.
Differentiation and positioning, by nature, require us as creators to continually double down on our differentiators, even when it takes courage to do so. If we don't, sooner or later, we wind up as commodity shows, with little to make us stand out from the dozens of other shows all vying for the attention of the same audience.
How do external considerations like SEO, PR, and the popular podcast apps factor in when you’re thinking about positioning and differentiation?
JE: I have conflicting thoughts on this, especially when it comes to SEO.
On the one hand, researching keyword trends and crafting content around them will probably help you get more traffic. On the other hand, the types of content that come from SEO keyword research are most often transactional and heavily commoditized.
In most cases, the people doing these searches are looking for a quick answer to their problem. They're looking for whoever can solve their problem in the shortest time so they can move on and get back to the stuff they actually want to be doing.
I may be an outlier, but I probably do at least five to ten Google searches per day for content explaining how to do something or other. And yet, despite all that search volume, I can't think of a single newsletter, blog, YouTube channel, or podcast I've discovered through those searches that I've ever actually subscribed to.
When it comes to PR and podcast apps, however, there’s no doubt that differentiation is a huge advantage.
Especially if you're pitching media outlets with your PR, compelling differentiation drastically increases the chances of being featured in publications. Remember, these editors receive hundreds if not thousands of pitches per month. Like everyone, they're much more likely to notice something that obviously stands out as different than something that's a slightly better version of a similar pitch they received earlier that week.
The same goes for listeners browsing through podcasting apps. Your naming, cover art, show description, episode titles, and more are all opportunities to zag when everyone else in your niche is zigging (is that a word?). Standing out is the best opportunity you have to attract both eyeballs and the earholes that come with them.
You mentioned that trying to be the best in a space is actually not the best strategy to stand out?! This is counterintuitive and perhaps even trigger-y for some podcasters (haha, me). Please explain.
JE: I totally get why this might be triggering or counterintuitive. So much of our culture encourages us to strive to be the best at whatever it is we're doing. However, there are few problems with striving to be "the best."
The first is that competing to be "the best" has this baked-in connotation of doing something similar to what someone else is doing. How else could you compare and judge which show is best if it didn't?
If you're able to actually reach the head of the pack and claim the title of "the best" show for your ideal audience members, that's great. But if you don't (which is the more likely scenario), you find yourself firmly stuck amid a bunch of runner-ups, where it's really easy to get lost in obscurity.
What's more, because so many people are gunning to be "the best," even if you're able to achieve that title momentarily, you're in a precarious position. Sooner or later, someone will find a way to create a better show than yours, and you'll find yourself playing catch up. So a goal of being "the best" subscribes you to a rat race of sorts, where you're always looking over your shoulder and comparing yourself to those around you.
In short, it's a stressful way to produce a show. And stress is not conducive to great creative work.
The second problem is that it might be entirely impossible for you to create "the best" show in your category, depending on your niche and topic.
Let's take the category of sharing fascinating stories from ordinary, everyday people, à la This American Life (TAL).
I've talked to dozens of podcasters who've created shows around this same theme, who have no doubt been inspired by shows like TAL to seek out and share these stories themselves. But if the premise of an indie creator's show is essentially the same as a big network show like TAL, how can they possibly hope to compete?
TAL producers spend literally months working on each 5-15 minute story that makes its way into a finished episode. They often spend dozens of hours recording and re-recording the narration for those stories. And then there's the editing, the music sourcing, the rounds of feedback and revisions, and so on.
Oh, and don't forget the decades of experience they have producing these types of shows and the thousands of fascinating stories being pitched to them every year without them having to go seek them out.
There's just no way for an indie creator to create a "better" version of that type of show. The only option is to produce something that's obviously different.
Finally, what does "best" even mean? Best for whom?
Sure, maybe you could win a podcasting or industry award or be listed at the top of some roundup article in your niche. But for the most part, "best" is an entirely subjective, individual appellation.
For all these reasons, aiming to be "the best" is a dangerous route to head down. A better approach is to compare only against yourself. Create the show that only you can create, and then strive to create the very best version of that show.
Amen. Anything else you’d like to add?
JE: I don't want to be dramatic, but when it comes to creating content online today, the phrase "differentiate or die" feels pretty apt.
There's so much free content available, much of it insanely good, that it's simply not enough to create whatever we feel like and hope people will find it. Those days are long gone.
Instead, we as creators need to up our game, do the research, and bring something to our audiences for which there is no easy replacement or alternative. That's the kind of show that has staying power, gets listeners in the door, and keeps them coming back for more. It's not easy, but it's the only way forward if you're serious about building a sustainable career as a full-time creator.
Thank you, Jeremy!
➡️ Find Jeremy online at counterweightcreative.co for more ways to connect.
➡️ Check out his newsletter Scrappy Podcasting for more info on boosting creatives in the podcasting world.
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Podcasters, how is your podcast unique in your niche? Can you sum it up in one sentence?
Follow me @courtneykocak on Twitter and Instagram. For more, check out my website courtneykocak.com.
Thanks so much for asking me to contribute Courtney!
I had a lot of fun putting this together and articulating my thoughts around differentiating in a more concise (if you can call this concise 😂) way than I had yet.