I’m researching a new project at all hours, my sleep schedule is truly effed, and I could not be happier. This “break” from my typical work-for-hire workload isn’t exactly time off, but the point was to do exactly what I’m doing now. My boyfriend was teasing me about waking up late, and I checked him with, “In my new life, my call time is 1:30pm.”
This week, we have an interview with another podcaster inclined to throw herself down a rabbit hole. Jamie Loftus is a singular voice in podcasting. She co-hosts The Bechdel Cast and has created and hosted a trio of quirky, intriguing podcasts over the past few years: My Year in Mensa, Lolita Podcast, and Aack Cast. She’s also a comedian and TV writer who turned to audio for the same reason a lot of us do… No spoilers, so let’s jump into the interview!
You’re one of my favorite artists and creators — and, though you work across mediums, I feel like people have really gotten a peek inside your weird and wonderful mind, thanks to podcasting. What’s your favorite thing about audio storytelling in specific?
JL: Freedom! I gravitate toward mediums where you can get away with doing the most high concept, weird shit on the lowest budget possible — podcasting, one-person shows, and working in animation are the places I've kind of settled for the moment.
There are obviously some unifying themes, but you’ve made podcasts about a wide range of topics in varying formats. How do you choose your projects? Or is it more like they choose you, and you lean into your current obsession?
JL: Definitely the last one, haha — I feel like it always shows when someone isn't passionate about what they're talking about. You can truly hear it in their voices. I tend to skew toward topics that everyone's familiar with, usually have a pretty strong opinion on, but no one actually knows that much about if pressed for more information. Mensa, Lolita, and Cathy comics are really different topics that all meet that description, and so is the book I'm working on about hot dogs. All Americana is cursed, and I guess it's my life's mission to see how many ways I can show that? I take that back, maybe.
Speaking of which, what’s going on with the hot dogs? I, unfortunately, couldn't make it to your live show, but are we going to hear a wiener pod from you this year?
JL: Haha, thank you for asking! I'm writing a book called Raw Dog that comes out in April 2023 with Tor/Forge. It's a collection of essays that traces the history of hot dogs, a look at ethics in meat production and labor rights, and about my little feelings, with everything from competitive eating to the Wienermobile covered in between. I'm between drafts right now and am so excited about it. No podcast, but I'm continuing work on a one-person show I write and perform that is inspired by the competitive eating world — it's called Mrs. Joseph Chestnut, America USA and I've been workshopping it monthly at the Elysian Theater in LA.
A lot of your work is research-intensive. What’s your method… just go deep? Any tips for other podcasters looking to elevate their shows (especially nonfiction) in this way? What about favorite reference or archival sources?
JL: I wish I had a better way of describing this, but I'll try by using the example of Aack Cast, which is all about the Cathy comics. I start by making sure I fully understand the source material — which in that case, boiled down to reading every single comic. It's a slog, but you start to pick up on the repeating themes, the stock characters, the commentary on the era the comic is coming out in. Then it's a zoom-out to contextualize those repeated themes — if Cathy is commenting on 80s and 90s diet culture marketed to mostly middle-class white women, what was the history and reality of that, and who did it exclude? What was the effect of that? Understanding not just the author, but why the author's work was embraced and rejected became a big factor, and again, who is left out in those discussions. Kind of a two-hand of making sure you've got the history right, then ensuring that you're doing some legwork to identify the secret histories. If it's a work very much in a specific time period, like Cathy and Lolita are, my last step is to trace how the work has been perceived and updated over time, how people receive it now, and whether the cultural commentary being made by them has significantly changed since the author first made their point — unfortunately, the answer is usually no. I recommend using all the JSTOR/archives you can, but I've found some of my best sources and people where you might not expect them. There's a TikTok or Tumblr or Reddit community for literally everything, and you'll find sources and info you wouldn't expect by taking the time to sift through it all.
Thank you for indulging me/us. Okay, now for the main event. How (and why) did the iHeart unionization effect get started?
JL: I'm so proud to be a part of the iHeart unionization efforts. I was brought in by my colleague Joelle Smith in the second wave of organizing committee recruitment early last year after producers, hosts, editors, and researchers were motivated by other unionizing in the industry and realized that many of us were being compensated and treated wildly differently for doing the same jobs. The more we talked and organized with WGA East, the more issues we realized needed to be addressed — differences in health care options, overworked employees, no opportunity for advancement with pay that scales with the rapid growth and demand for the industry we work in.
What’s the process for a unionization effort like this, and what’s the current status?
JL: It's mainly conversations, which have been really fun and challenging. Because of the somewhat isolated nature of the job, most of us working at this huge company across three offices hadn't met before and didn't know each other's positions and predicaments, so it was a lot of getting to understand where everyone is coming from as an organizing unit, then applying those lessons to conversations with all our colleagues to get a feel for what their concerns are and what we can do as a union to address them. Having the support of WGA East has been crucial to this — most of us are first-time union organizers, so we bring a lot of enthusiasm, but that's meant learning on the job. Our union went public with the campaign in December of last year. Currently, we're in voluntary recognition negotiations with the company instead of going through the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB). This process has been positive thus far because of the power we've built with one another. Once we win recognition, we start the collective bargaining process with the end goal of a contract. Hoping to know more soon!
People frequently work on freelance contracts in audio, and there are also a lot of talent deals that don't operate like regular employment. Have you learned anything about how unionization interacts with these types of non-standard employment scenarios?
JL: Podcasting is still such a wild west in a lot of ways in terms of ways that hosts and employees are treated; it feels very much like we're sometimes building the plane as it's taking off. I would encourage anyone signing a freelance contract to talk to other people who have assigned similar deals at your network and at comparable networks before committing — I've heard so many examples of people being ripped off and have been myself! Don't be shy; they're difficult questions to start a conversation about but could really help you down the line. The WGA East is also expanding organizing efforts in podcasting, so reach out if you want guidance on upcoming deals.
Any advice for folks who work at podcasting or other creative companies who might be feeling overworked and undervalued and have considered approaching colleagues to see if there's union interest?
JL: Organize, baby! I regret keeping my concerns to myself earlier in my podcasting ~career~ (shit) for fear of retaliation because so many people in a position similar to me are being treated the same or sometimes worse. There was a lot of personal insecurity and self-loathing that got in the way of my talking to people earlier, and to anyone who struggles with the same imposter impulses, just know that you're empowering the systems that are mistreating you and your colleagues by blaming yourself. Find a coworker you feel comfortable speaking with and start the conversation; I promise you won't regret it.
Anything else you’d like to add?
JL: I will impart the wisdom that Jackie Michelle Johnson taught me, which is don’t forget to moisturize your neck.
Powerful stuff. Thank you so much, Jamie!
➡️ Follow Jamie @jamieloftusHELP on Twitter, @jamiechristsuperstar on Instagram, and if you’re in LA, she’ll be performing her hotdog show on February 17th.
Podcasting ad rates are going up (regardless of how many listeners you have) - Libsyn's AdvertiseCast showed podcast ad rates movin' on up in January. The average CPM is now $25.39, about a 6% increase over last month and 12% over the previous year. You love to see it.
Producing “The Last Days of Maradona” was a jaw-dropping feat - As Leila Day noted, “Just sinking in that @AdondeMedia made this incredible podcast in 6 languages, two in different Spanish dialects, then dropped 36 episodes in one day. Terrifying and impressive.” Yeah, this is making me sweat as a producer. Color me impressed.
An indie show won “Podcast of the Year” - As Podnews reports, You're Wrong About creator Sarah Marshall took home the top prize at the 2022 iHeartRadio Podcast Awards yesterday. Indie representation for the win. Congrats, Sarah!
Producer/Reporter, Throughline (full-time) at NPR | Remote
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Director of Development, Israel Story (full-time) at Israel Story | Remote
Managing Producer/Show Development (full-time) at Ten Percent Happier | Remote
Senior Producer/Show Development, Childproof (full-time) at Ten Percent Happier | Remote
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Podcast Host (full-time) at WBUR | Boston, MA
Producer (full-time) at WBUR | Boston, MA
Associate Development Producer, Bad Robot Audio (full-time) at Bad Robot Productions | Los Angeles, CA
Grateful for this Twitter thread recap of a Twitter Spaces convo about “What can podcasters learn from book publishing about marketing?” I wasn’t able to attend, so I’m thrilled that there’s also a replay. Shout-out Arielle Nissenblatt!
Eric Mennel tweeted that The 11th is always looking for new and interesting pitches. This is a great opportunity for producers with one-off ideas itching a hole in their pocket (hi, me). I love that each episode is its own special snowflake.
Alex Hobby shared this thorough list of podcast tools and resources on Twitter recently.
Psst… are you noticing a trend? Podcast Twitter is the place to be!
We kick off our new series about the modern psychedelic renaissance by sharing our past experiences with that genre of drugs (excuse me, medicine). Then Courtney interviews the team behind Psychedelic Water and speaks with Ben Rogul about his life-changing experience with psychedelics.
In the second installment of our Mind Trip series, Sofiya and I wade deeper into the modern psychedelic renaissance. We give a little primer on the cultural origins of Ayahuasca. Then Courtney interviews a friend about his first experience participating in a ceremony, and we find out what it's been like integrating what he learned in the months after.
Author, professor, and anti-racist activist Dr. Ibram X. Kendi discusses eliminating racial inequity and injustice, as well as speaking up for and defending yourself — plus, he shares how he mentally survived his battle with cancer. Dr. Kendi is both a survivor and the shepherd we've needed to guide us through our recent racial reckoning. This was a powerful episode.
Should Congress be banned from buying stocks? Do they have an inside edge that the rest of us don't have? Mesh Lakhani explains.
So… ROLL CALL! 🗣
Have you felt overworked and/or undervalued in your professional podcasting experience(s)?
Follow me @courtneykocak on Twitter and Instagram. For more, check out my website courtneykocak.com.