Growing Your Show via Google Ads, Facebook & Twitter 📈
The 411 on paid promo for indie podcasters
Hey Besties!
Most of the indie podcasters I know are trying to grow their show(s). It’s a never-ending process — as soon as you hit a new milestone, you want to reach for the next one. So for this edition, I wanted to do a Q&A with a notable hustler in the indie podcasting community who’s successfully used paid promotion to reach new listeners and grow his audience, Greg Kaffenberger (otherwise known as Greg from @indiedropin on Twitter). This interview is an excellent case study and primer for incorporating Google Ads, Facebook, and Twitter into your podcast marketing strategy. I hope you find it as helpful as I did!
I’m so excited about this convo because I’m investing heavily in growing my podcast this year. I saw you post this chart on Twitter, and you doubled your numbers in just over a year. I know you’ve tried several techniques, but what do you attribute most of your growth to?
G: Thank you so much for the chance to chat about podcasting and growth! The chart referenced is the 2021 download statistics for Indie Drop-In. The most significant impact on growing downloads was, without a doubt, paid ads. I use and continually test a wide range of paid ads ranging from host-read baked-in ads to pay-per-click ads on Google, Twitter, and Facebook.
Tell me about your success with Google Ads. That’s not necessarily something most indie podcasters consider when promoting their shows. What’s been your investment and ROI? Any advice for podcasters just getting started on Google Ads?
G: First, I love Google Ads for promoting podcasts. But I want to caution everyone that understanding the return on investment on ANY podcast advertising is challenging, frustrating, and inexact. The technology for tracking attribution between a click on Google and a download of your podcast is limited, and privacy settings on mobile devices limit data collection.
My investment in Google Ads varies per show based on many factors. Generally speaking, I'll always have a Google ad running at 15 dollars a day per podcast as my default which is about $450 per month. My target listener acquisition cost is $2, so for that $450, I'd expect 225 new listeners the following month. I like to see the additional 225 listeners on episode release day, but if my average downloads per episode in the first 30 days goes up by 225, I consider that a win. It takes three months to see anything happen. These new listeners mix with your old listeners, so you are looking for a trend.
I'm sure people are reading this thinking 450 bucks for 225 listeners; you must be crazy! While others are thinking $2 a listener is cheap. You can buy down cost with scale, but in the $450 range, $2 is a good deal. One tool I use to track clicks and new users is Chartable SmartLinks. Without a tool like Chartable, you have to very closely analyze your downloads and look for trends to understand if your advertising is working.
My advice for a new podcaster starting with Google Ads is to start with a Smart search campaign. Smart campaigns have minimal settings and are good for beginners. The targeting options aren’t as granular as other options, but they have been easy and highly effective for me. I've seen my lowest cost per click on display ads. The cool thing about display ads is you can target audiences based on the website they use. So, for example, if you have a wrestling podcast, you can target people who have gone to wwe.com.
How do you approach promoting your shows through Facebook? Are your strategies organic, paid, or both?
G: Other than Facebook groups, organic hasn't worked for me on Facebook. I even bought paid ads to grow a page to 3k followers, and my posts on the page frequently have less than 20 views. Not a good ROI.
Facebook ads do work, and they work on par with Google ads. Depending on your specific niche, there are pros and cons. There are three ways I like to use Facebook ads. First, your niche is listed as a targetable interest, like cooking or golf. I target True Crime. Second, promote your page to grow followers and re-target your follower for podcast ads. I like this strategy for the long term because of Facebook adding podcasts to Facebook pages. The third strategy I like is one my friend Tanner Campbell (of Good Morning, Podcasters! FKA Podcasting Sucks!) showed me. You add a Facebook pixel to your podcast website and target people similar to people who already visit your site.
There are infinite ways to build ads on Facebook, but the three I mentioned I have tried personally and would recommend.
How does that compare with your podcast promo experience on Twitter? Do you run paid ads on Twitter? What’s your strategy for marketing your show organically on Twitter?
G: I do run ads on Twitter. Twitter is, without a doubt, the easiest place to run ads for your podcast. I use two primary strategies. The first is a simple word match campaign. If anyone types a tweet with the words "True Crime Podcast," "Scary Podcast," or "Funny Podcast," I want my ads to come up. The second strategy is a "look-alike" campaign. I target the followers of other Twitter accounts in my niche. Very simple.
Twitter is an excellent platform to get organic listeners for your podcast. The trick is to not fall into the trap of "Podcasting Twitter." Unless you make a show about podcasting, there is very little value in podcasters following you. What is valuable is when your target audience follows you. You get your target audience to follow you by engaging in their content. Their content should be similar to the content you talk about on your podcast and are likely a subject matter expert. Ensure your Twitter bio tells them why you are interesting to follow, link to your podcast, and pin a tweet about why your podcast is fantastic. Then, contribute to the subject. Don't "follow for follow" or other nonsense. Just be nice, on topic, and active.
How much does video contribute to your total audience? Do you publish all your shows on YouTube? Any tips or tricks for how podcasters can maximize on YouTube?
G: Very little. YouTube isn't set up well for audio-only. I do convert all episodes to audiogram using headliner and post to youtube. I think this will change in the future, and even though my audience there is small, it doesn't take much effort to post there.
I think that YouTube will get podcasts figured out, and everyone that has been posting will benefit by being there already.
You actually have a couple of podcasts dedicated specifically to promoting other shows. How does that work, and how can independent podcasters submit to be featured?
G: Yes, Indie Drop-In Network consists of podcasts with feed drops from other shows. Essentially, users can submit a show to be featured. If the episodes meet some basic criteria, I create a personalized intro and play them on my podcast. The listeners love it because they get exposed to new and diverse independent podcasters.
Today, we have three categories: True Crime, Comedy, and Scary/Paranormal. If a podcaster is in one of those categories, they can go to https://indiedropin.com/creators to submit an episode.
If creators are in other categories, they can still go to https://indiedropin.com/creators, but instead of submitting an episode, they should signup for the newsletter and join my Facebook or Twitter Communities. I announce all new categories and other fantastic opportunities there.
Anything else you think indie podcasters should know about how to grow their shows?
G: The list of things to know for podcasting is endless. I sound like a broken record, but the most important thing to podcasting success, in my opinion, is serving a niche. Knowing who you want to help, inform, inspire, entertain, influence, etc., gets you 90 percent of the data you need to market your show.
I agree. Thank you, Greg!
Are you a podcast creator in the true crime, comedy, or scary/paranormal space? Submit an episode of your show here to be featured on Greg’s Indie Drop-In Network!
➡️ Follow Greg on Twitter and check out his new show on podcasting called Podcast Garage.
Libysn Launches Pod Parity Campaign to Amplify Women in Podcasting - Dubbed #ClaimPodParity, Libysn’s grassroots movement aims to uplift, amplify and nurture diverse audio creators. Check out how you can join the women’s podcasting movement!
Feet In 2 Worlds Accepting Applications for Editing Fellowship - Apply to be mentored and trained in editing for radio, podcasts, and online media by a team of veteran editors. The ideal candidate is interested in stories about and from immigrant communities and communities of color. Journalists from those backgrounds and communities are strongly urged to apply.
Podchaser is Donating to Ukraine Efforts for Every New Review - Podchaser’s annual #Reviews4Good fundraiser is donating 25 cents to World Central Kitchen’s #ChefsForUkraine efforts for every new review left in April!
Producer (full-time) at Stitcher Podcasts | Los Angeles, CA
Producer, Narrative Podcast (contract) at Religion of Sports | Remote
Executive Producer, Audio & Podcasts (full-time) at Los Angeles Times | El Segundo, CA
Host, The Current (On-Call) (part-time) at American Public Media Group | St. Paul, MN
Post-Production, Producer or Associate Producer (full-time) at American Public Media Group | New York, Los Angeles, St. Paul, or Remote
Associate Producer, Smash Boom Best (full-time) at American Public Media Group | New York, Los Angeles, St. Paul, or Remote DC + Remote
Senior Producer, Podcasting (full-time) at A+E Networks | New York City, NY
This week’s Play It Forward has to be the sweetest duo of recommendations yet! Tal Kelly recommends this fun, educational episode from a podcast hosted by kids FOR kids:
Cool Facts About Animals: Earth Day! Endangered and Comeback Animals
“These kids are brilliant, and Ali, their mom, is inspiring in the way she teaches them, fosters their curiosity, and supports their interests. This episode is particularly positive and educational, bringing together kids' natural love for animals and practical advice in caring for our Earth's future. It also seems like the perfect timing to bring this episode back as Earth Day is coming up soon.”
Speaking of kids, Tal’s son hosts a podcast that she was a guest on recently called At Your Level. The episode title alone gives you a peek at the fun dynamic between mother and son.
At Your Level: Embarrassing Parent
“What I love most about the podcast is that it provides kids with a platform to be heard. Recently, he invited two kids to cohost the next season with him; these girls were complete strangers whom he's met through the podcast — one of them, Swara, is in this episode! We hope to reach more kids that would enjoy expressing themselves through this medium and have them join in.”
Thank you, Tal, for sharing these perfect kid-friendly podcasts with us (and being a kickass supportive podcast parent). I encourage all Besties — especially parent Besties — to check out both!
➡️ Here’s the link to submit for future editions.
So… ROLL CALL! 🗣
What’s been your best method for podcast promo? Was it organic, paid, or earned?
Follow me @courtneykocak on Twitter and Instagram. For more, check out my website courtneykocak.com.